Victoria Stillwell Or Caesar Millan-your Preference & Why?
Filed under Care & Training Q&As
With me it’s Victoria Stillwell….she re-trains both owners & problem dogs without any harsh methods or punishment involved…it’s all about patience,praise, positive reinforcement, being consistent,and learning how to communicate with the dog. I have never once seen her use any method remotely harsh or punishing, not even those horrible ‘choke’ collars, and her results are spot one every time.
I’ve used them with my little papillon and I have to say the terrible small dog syndrome toy dogs often have he does not. Aftr a few hours of working with him he has overcome his fear of the front door (it’s opening and him walking thru it) , walking on a lead, and sleeping quietly in his own special place at night (NOT in my bed). he is stranger friendly and very polite in his greeting…and his potty training is coming along beautifully-not bad for a 6 month old puppy with no real training and I’ve had for only 2 weeks! Now we’ll be learning the basics such as sitting, stay, leave it, come (he’s got ‘come’ down pat & ‘leave it almost 100% mastered)
So who do you prefer, and why?
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This is easy. That Victoria person is a bubble head, who knows nothing about dogs. She is all about working with a dogs stomach and not their brain. Cookies and clickers. Great until your dog is not hungry and goes back to being a jerk. Also, anyone who thinks slip collars are cruel, really has serioius issues.
Cesar knows dogs, knows how to get in their minds, and knows how to work with people as well.
Well for “fun” training I like Victoria but for major behavioral problems, I go by Cesar hands down!
I will only use Victoria’s “treat training” for fun stuff but I can’t train my dogs everyday stuff with treats. They would only listen to me if I had food, I dont think that’s real training….
Now that I go by Cesar’s way, they are the most well behaved Hounds I have been around!
Now lets listen to everyone say how abusive and cruel Cesar is….
In general, Victoria Stilwell’s techniques are more up-to-date. I haven’t agreed with everything, but her approaches are generally at least in keeping with training methods used by most legitimate trainers at this time. I’m not a Cesar fan at all. He uses out-of-date and sometimes dangerous methods that are based on old assumptions or just flat poor information. This article lays it out well
i like victoria stilwell because i rather train my dog than try to dominate him.
plus victoria is a trainer as for cesar is a behavorist
and i believe cesar is all for show now
i have a pit bull mix and victoria stilwells technique works fine with him
I LOVE victoria stillwell…i agree with her positive reinforcement..and her patience….and she teaches the pet parents that if they cant take the time to have patience with their dog to train it, then they shouldnt have gotten a dog in the first place…
Caesar Millan- I just agree with his notion that frustration has no place in training a dog.
I do use some of Ms. Stillwell’s techniques though, like yelping and turning away when a dog bites too hard.
Casear’s methods are better for aggressive/ crazy dogs. I think Victoria is better for the milder cases. Both have their pros and cons
I like them both. Casear’s methods are better for aggressive dogs but both are good.
both
Both. Depending on the dog,and far gone their stupid owners have let them go.
Severe fear aggression is a serious problem that will not work with clickers and food, as many of those dogs won’t even take food, so natural alpha correction is the only other way. Well, that or euthanasia. If it were my dog, I’d pick Cesar’s way, thank you very much, however, I am not irresponsible enough to allow a dog to get that bad, no matter what breed OR SIZE.
Yeah, I am talk crap about you little dog owners that don’t how how to control your little nippy, nasty dogs. Most of you don’t have the mental capacity to raise goldfish, let alone a dog, and forget children.
For entertainment value, probably Cesar Milan. Marginally, for actual training value, Victoria Stillwell. But that’s probably down to me living in the UK (and a bit more in tune with where she’s coming from) rather than actual ability.
However, although occasionally I can still pick up some helpful information from programmes like this (you never stop learning), I don’t hang everything on either of these two – they have hooked into something that these days is in short supply – COMMON SENSE.
I think its a case of being eclectic, different ways work for different people and with different dogs… Cesar’s ways work, as do VS’s BUT not ALL their methods are right for ALL dogs. I think you use your own judgement and your own opinions to try things out and see what works for you….
Some people think they can “hiss” at their dog or pelt round on roller blades dragging their dog along and they are “doing” dog whispering!
I find reward based training works for my Bichon Frise, but she isn’t a “dominant” type of dog anyway.
Caesar gets my vote- He gets into the dogs mind and understands what is going on- Sometimes you just can’t bribe your way out of situations. Owners who don’t know anything about dogs shouldn’t have them unless they go to some type of dog training. They are the problem, not the dog. Caesar shoves the point home quietly and in a way the owner can carry through without a lot of steps. ( clickers, treat bags, etc) He does the KISS method- Keep It Simple Stupid! Much more effective for a society that can’t keep its kids under control let alone its pets!
Hands down Cesar Millan. Victoria gets on my nerves. The dogs she works with are very simple cases, and a lot of the time she doesn’t even fix them. Plus she openly admits that some of her cases with a little bit of dog to dog or dog to human aggression she can’t completely fix and they will never be able to be together. I don’t call that training but pacifying Cesar totally fixes problems and you need to look into his methods because he is not harsh. He does what needs to be done for the dangerous cases he gets. In my training i use a mixture of Cesars methods with my own and it works great. It is good that you are getting your pup off to a good start but you can’t really say anything since your dog isn’t even a year old and you have only had her for two weeks. Not the 7 and 9 years that I have with my current dogs along with the dogs that I train for other people. But if it works for you go for it but don’t bash other trainers.
none of the above!
I prefer the hands on method of training with my trainer, rather than sitting in front of the boob tube.
I really don’ t believe that your 6 month old pup has mastered anything yet. You’ve only had him for 2 weeks, yet he’s 100% – hard to believe! I don’t doubt he knows some commands, but 100%?
You haven’t even hit the “teenage years” with him yet so get ready for him to test his boundaries!
btw – i use treats, toys, fursaver collar – i guess you can call it a “choke”, a prong, praise, positive reinforcement, and corrections. you use whatever works for you with your dog. it’s the method in which you use these things, and how consistent you are, that will get the job done.
I don’t know why everyone seems to think that Cesar “punishes” dogs. Even Victoria Stillwell corrects dogs. If you’d read “Cesar’s Way” you would realize that he doesn’t “punish” the dogs, he corrects them.
On “choke” collars. I have an American Staffordshire Terrier puppy. Put him on a gentle leader and you have to DRAG him. Two minutes later put his leash on his flat collar and he’ll be standing on his hind legs at the other end of the leash. With a PROPERLY USED martingale collar (or the leash looped around his neck in a pinch) he gets a correction when he misbehaves and a release when he does the correct thing. Cesar is not strangling or asphyxiating the dogs with the leash, he is giving them a quick correction and releasing.
I use a combination of Cesar Millan, Victoria Stillwell and Tamar Gellar in my training along with other techniques I have picked up along the way. If you have a Pit Bull type dog, Cane Corso, GSD or other dominant breed using the light and fluffy methods of Victoria Stillwell or Tamar Gellar alone the dog will look at you like you’re insane, do as you ask and then giggle hysterically and resume doing whatever they want. Non-dominant breeds including labradors and little dogs won’t know the difference if the dog-psychology based methods of Cesar Millan are not used.
Personally I think that tying a dog to a ring in the floor is a little extreme, as is having to black out your entire car (which is illegal here) to get your dogs to behave. And if you notice, dogs that have anxiety over their owners leaving she handles it in a very similar way that Cesar does. When they do the same things who is right? All good dog trainers using dog psychology methods will overlap.
Add: Bozema, good thing I read that article. One problem. Using the methods that are shot down in the article you mentioned I was able to take a human aggressive dog into a decent family dog in about a month. Also using the methods that don’t work according to the article I was able to teach an obnoxious Jack Russell Terrier mix that the world did not belong to her and nothing in life is free. She was adopted by a couple that teach and train exclusively by Cesar’s methods that supposedly don’t work and she is a very happy well balanced member of her family. I just sent a Pit Bull mix home to her owners after a week of training her that she is not in charge, humans are and she’s a completely different dog showing calm behavior where she used to be aggressive. The breeder I got my puppy from uses a form of the training that “doesn’t work” with her three American Staffordshire Terriers and somehow, even though the training is ineffective, has three champion dogs and all three of the dogs (bred to be dog aggressive) can be turned out together because SHE is the boss. And generally speaking, anyone can post anything they want on the internet. Go check out the crap PETAs website spews on a regular basis.
FYI Cesar’s methods didn’t originate from some study of captive wolves. Cesar’s methods came from observing the packs of dogs roaming on his Grandfather’s farm. Try reading the book and know what you’re talking about before just making stuff up.
Victoria, for all the reasons you stated.
Contrary to what others have stated, “treat-training” works just as well for the serious stuff as it does the fun stuff. Do you really think dogs know that sit is an obedience command and roll over is just a trick? Of course not! A behavior is a behavior. And I would NEVER use physical or harsh punishment for aggressive behavior. Doing so does not teach the dog how to behave and change how he feels in the given situation. Oh, and when used properly, you don’t have to have a pocketful of treats on you all the time to get your dog to comply. If your dog doesn’t behave without a treat under its nose, you didn’t train correctly.
Cesar makes me shudder. He uses outdated methods and doesn’t understand learning theory or body language – or does and chooses to ignore it and apply his own agenda. I don’t know which is worse.
Congrats to you on accomplishing so much with your little pup!
Personally I like Victoria. I think they both use positive reinforcement in their training and they both re train owners and dogs. But Caesar deals with aggressive dogs and that type of behavior issues. Where as Victoria does work on aggressive issues, she works more with other behavior issues like fears, walking, feeding, possessive behavior, calming and jumping issues. I have watched them both, and I have also noticed that Caesar, for the most part works with larger dogs, where as Victoria usually deals with smaller dogs. But each train both. Both are firm in their training, but I think Victoria is more understanding. And I do not like that Caesar training collar. I have 2 shih tzu’s and would never use something like that.
Keep up the good work with your wonderful papillion
Definitely VIctoria, especially for aggression cases. CM’s methods can be downright dangerous and abusive, especially when attempted by people who don’t know what they’re doing.
I’ve got dog trainer friends who deal with the fallout of actual CM cases, as well as “wannabe” trainers using his methods. Dogs who are majorly stressed out, some who have increased their aggression in order to protect themselves from their aggressive owners and trainers (which is how the dogs see it!), and others who are increasingly fearful.
What you see on TV is only a piece- and some of what you see if absolutely frightening if you understand dog body language. I can’t stand to watch.
Which isn’t to say that everything he does is bad, but there’s so much dominance theory hogwash mixed in, and use of force when completely unneeded, that I strongly wish the show would be pulled- but unfortunately, its great entertainment! But even the show warns “not to try this at home!”
There is no “right or wrong” answer . People have opinions on who they think is a better trainer. But I personally believe neither are better than each other..
For Victoria, yeah, sure, she may throw treats at them and may be postive, but it doesn’t fix the real problem. I hardly ever see any REAL cases serious dog cases on Victorias show. Mostly, just the basics. Although Cesars methods are outdated, he actually stresses how important it is to be in charge and sybolize being the leader and not letting a dog control your life. Some of these people act like he is committing a crime here, but be realistic, if you have a dog aggressive dog, which trainer would you prefer ? I certainly wouldn’t be throwing treats at him because what if your at a place where you have no treats ? Then what ? Your back to square one..
For example I will use a case..
A family with a dog who has no boundaries or limitations..
Victoria: Putting a gate up to stop the dog
Cesar: Letting the dog know his boundaries and limitations so know gate would be required.
Victoria’s way sounds good, but it is the easy way out and is only quick solution. You aren’t learning anything, neither is the dog.
I personally would choose Cesar for this type of job, especially if it is a dominant dog like a Bully Breed, because breeds like that, they know how to dominate someone who can’t physically and mentally take in charge. You stop the problem before it gets out of hand. Another problem with feeding dogs treats during training is that the dog might expect more and more treats, eventually to the point where he will only respond when you have treats. For some people it may work, like the basic dog training, but for people who walk around with serious dog issues cannot be trained out of the problem with treats and fun.
I like them both, watch them both, learn from both, admire both. And both are “entertaining.” Garnet Glitter, you are dealing with a Papillon – one of my favorite breeds, very smart, and one that is very easily trained. Get an out of control Pit Bull or the like, and maybe you’d appreciate Caesar more.
Aren’t we talking Apples and Oranges though? Caesar rehabilitates dogs and Victoria trains them. Caesar takes on dogs that are often so out of control they are deemed down right dangerous and are headed for Dog Heaven if nothing can be done.
There seems to be a factor of anti-Caeser people out there, that claim his methods are “outdated.” It’s different then what Victoria does, but her method is older then dirt – so is hers “outdated” as well? Those same people then quote so called “professionals” that have never trained or worked with a difficult dog in their life. (LOL) Some are against him because he hasn’t “gone to school” to learn about dogs. Please. There are people that have the talent to play the piano without ever taking a lesson. Any anti-Caesar “bleeding hearts” need to take one of those dangerous dogs and show us how successful they are.
I think Caesar and Victoria both own great and natural abilities and should be noted for same. Does this have to be a competition between them? They are both extremely talented in their individual ways. Can’t we appreciate both? Can’t we learn from both?
If people out there think dogs are robots and each of them learns in just “one way” they haven’t worked with enough dogs to understand each dog is different, and you have to adjust training methods for same.